What We Know

It’s time to start updating where my family research is at these days. I thought I would start with Samuel Redford. He was previously the first known Ancestor on my Redford line. I believe I’ve gone one more generation back now but there are still so many questions. For the first part. I still have no record of Samuel’s birth. I’ve gotten many different records through the General Register Office.

Spoiler Alert

None of those are my Samuel. At least I don’t think they are. It was at this moment… Actually this moment and many genealogy webinars if I’m being honest, this was when I decided that I would gather as much information about Samuel, his family, and his associates that I could gather before I bought anymore birth records.

Samuel Redford and Frances Wright Travis Marriage Record

St. Mary’s (Stockport, Cheshire, England), Marriages and Banns, 1754-1940, “1863-1865 book,” Samuel Redford, Frances Wright Travis marriage record, p. 234, record 468; digital images, Ancestry (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 14 Mar 2025).

Facts to take from this record

• Samuel and Frances were married on January 25, 1865 in the Stockport parish church by Frederic Kelly the curate.
• Banns were read before the marriage, meaning it was most likely announced or posted at the church for three Sundays in a row before the marriage.
• “Of Full Age” means both Samuel and Frances told the church that they were 21 or over.
  • I know Frances was 23 at the time of her marriage but I only have a calculated date of birth for Samuel so far. According to my records he would be the age of 21 in 1865 depending on the month.
• Neither Samuel or Frances were married before this marriage
• Samuel is a Hatter as his profession
• Samuel is residing in Hyde, Frances is residing in Werneth. Werneth and Hyde are both close in proximity to Stockport.
• Samuel’s father is listed as William Duckworth, labourer
• Frances’ father is listed as William Travis, hatter
• Witnesses to the marriage are George Mottram and Alice Mottram.

George and Alice Mottram

I first wanted to track down the Mottram witnesses. If they were random people, I’d like to get it out of the way first. First, I looked for George and Alice in the 1861 census in the Hyde area. I tried multiple search terms and couldn’t find them. I decided that maybe they weren’t coming up in their own households yet and might be children in their parents house at the time. Before going down that rabbit hole or searching page by page, I wanted to try and see if I could find them together in the 1871 census. I am going on the assumption that they are a married couple, but they could also be siblings.

1871 Census

1871 census of England, Cheshire, Stockport First, ED 19, folio 21, page 36, George Mottram household; digital images, MyHeritage (http://www.myheritage.com : accessed 15 Mar 2025); citing PRO RG 10/3662.

I was able to find this George and Alice Mottram and I was liking that his occupation was felt hat body maker. Samuel Redford was also a hatter by trade. So this means George might have been a co-worker of Samuel. That would explain why he’s at the wedding. I decided to fill out the census years for George and Alice and look for a marriage record for them. Maybe Samuel was a witness to their wedding?

Looking for a Marriage Record for George and Alice

Cathedral (Manchester, Lancashire, England), Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930, “1850,” entry for George Mottram, Alice May marriage; p. 120, item 239; digital images, Ancestry (http://ancestry.com : accessed 15 Mar 2025).

This was a marriage record that came up in the hints for George. The ages fit, the names fit. The addresses are unfamiliar but I’m now 15 years before Samuel Redford’s marriage and 21 years before the 1871 census. George is not listed as a hatter in this record but his father is. The church is in Manchester which is not the Stockport/Hyde area I’m trying to stay in, but I’ve found Travis couples getting married in this same church when living in Hyde. This means I need to consult a map and see how close it is to the area I know them from.

Excuse me, I’m going to need a few minutes first to admire this building….

Okay I’m back. After some reading on the GENUKI site (which I love BTW), up until 1847 only marriages performed in this cathedral were considered valid for the parish. There were other chapels and churches who got authorized to perform marriages, but there was still a lot of controversy surrounding it. The controversy died down in 1847 after the Manchester church was given Cathedral status. However, if I was close to there and getting married, aside from just the beauty of the church, I would probably want to be married there too.

There is a red pin at the location of the Manchester Cathedral and I’ve circled the parishes that I’ve found association with the Travis family. Which Samuel Redford married into. So its very reasonable to have people marry at that particular church knowing that there was a question on the validity of marriages performed anywhere else in the area.

Verifying the 1871 children are the children of George and Alice

Once I decided to accept that marriage record of George Mottram and Alice May, I need to check that the 1871 census was also the same couple. I looked up births for children of those names and ages on the General Register Office website. It seems it is the same family. The next step is to fill in the census information for both George and Alice as much as possible. To see who interacts with them over the years. I know this might seem a little much for someone who might not be connected more than this one thing. However, you really never know when someone will be a deeper connection. And yes, this is foreshadowing. 😂

George’s Family

St. Mark’s Church (Bredbury, Cheshire, England), Register of Marriages, 1538-1910 Thomas Mottram, Betty Redford 1859 marriage, page 126, record no. 252; digital images, Find My Past (http://www.findmypast.com : accessed 14 Jan 2025).

I started with George’s family. He was a hatter so I thought maybe it was the best bet for important information. Above in the graphic is an overview of George’s siblings. Also is a copy of his brother Thomas’ 2nd marriage record. To Betty Redford…. That’s right Betty Redford. Samuel would be about 16 at the time of his mother’s marriage here if Betty is his mother. She is listed as a spinster with a father by the name of John Redford, who was a dresser. New occupation, unique occupation.

First things first, I need to look up Thomas and Betty in the census to check Betty’s age. Full age just means 21 or above. It doesn’t mean she is old enough to have a 16 year old son. Which is vital information here.

1861 census of England, Cheshire, Hyde Parish, St. George Ecclesiastical district, Stockport registrar’s district, folio 102, page 3, Thomas Mottram household; digital images, MyHeritage (http://www.myheritage.com : accessed 5 Jan 2025); citing PRO RG 9/2557.

Well…

So what we see in this record is Thomas Mottram, hatter, age 39. Betty Mottram, his wife, age 39. Samuel Radford son with what looks like in law scratched out, age 18, hatter. Thomas’ daughters from his first marriage are listed next and on the next page. The family is living on Hyde Lane. It was about this time that I remembered that Samuel and Frances’ first child was born in England and I could get their birth record pretty quickly. This might give me some more information.

Samuel and Frances’ Children in England

England and Wales, birth certificate for Joseph Redford, born 9 Aug 1865; citing 08A/15/299, Sept quarter 1865, Stockport registration district; General Register Office, Southport.

What I found was a previously unknown child to Samuel and Frances named Joseph. Oh if you guys knew how much the name Joseph gives me pause after my Mottram research. Perhaps a story for another day.

England and Wales, death certificate for Joseph Redford, died 11 Jun 1868; citing 08A/14/301, Jun quarter 1868, Stockport registration district; General Register Office, Southport.

Yep that’s how my Joseph research has been going. Its important to see the Hyde Lane here though.

England and Wales, birth certificate for William Redford, born 30 Jun 1869; citing 08A/13/200, Sept quarter 1869, Stockport registration district; General Register Office, Southport.

Then William Redford about a year after that. I haven’t found more children in England but this definitely fills the time between when Samuel and Frances were married in 1865 and 1870 when they made the journey to America. Before I thought maybe Samuel and Frances came because of Samuel’s parentage or lack of it. Now I see, the reason might have been concern over the health of their newborn son. Trying to get out of the city and into fresher air. This will need some location research and maps next. I’m not quite prepared for that yet though.

Conclusion

It’s interesting that previously I thought maybe William Duckworth was a mentor to Samuel given information I had seen on genealogy shows and read around in articles. I thought maybe he put the name of a father figure and not his actual father. Now though, I see Thomas and George Mottram, who seem to have been mentors to him. It looks like they are the ones who taught Samuel the hatter trade and not Frances’ family. Maybe William Duckworth is his true biological father. I will need to look into the DNA matches more it seems. I’m not prepared for that yet either. 😂

So now you are caught up on my Redford line research where it stands today. I’m sure you guys are still just as confused as I am! If anything stands out to you though, let me know. 😂 I’m hoping to make some timelines in the future for each of my direct ancestor lines. That should help refresh me on where all my main research stands.